Chapter 3 of 9

Chapter 3: Qualitative Discovery

The phenomenology of customer pain, unbiased interviewing, and JTBD.

Playbook Chapters
What You'll Learn By the end of this chapter, you'll master The Mom Test rules for unbiased interviews, know how to uncover the "jobs" customers are really trying to do, and have a discovery interview script you can use immediately.

The Art of Customer Interviews

Here's an uncomfortable truth: People lie to you. Not maliciously—they're trying to be nice. If you ask "Would you use my product?", they'll say yes to avoid hurting your feelings.

This chapter teaches you how to extract truth from conversations—how to ask questions that reveal what people actually do, not what they think you want to hear.

Why People Lie (Without Meaning To)

Questions That Get Lies

  • "Would you use a product that does X?"
  • "Do you think this is a good idea?"
  • "Would you pay $50/month for this?"
  • "How much would you pay for this?"

These invite hypothetical answers. People are terrible at predicting their own behavior.

Questions That Get Truth

  • "Tell me about the last time you had this problem."
  • "What have you tried to solve it?"
  • "How much did that cost you?"
  • "What happened after that?"

These ask about real past behavior. People can't lie about what they've actually done.

The Mom Test

Rob Fitzpatrick's The Mom Test provides three simple rules that transform customer conversations:

Rule 1

Talk about their life, not your idea

You're there to learn about their problems, not pitch your solution. If you find yourself explaining your product, you've failed.

Rule 2

Ask about the past, not the future

"When was the last time..." beats "Would you ever..." every time. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

Rule 3

Talk less, listen more

You have two ears and one mouth. Use them in that ratio. If you're talking more than 20% of the time, you're doing it wrong.

The Deadly Question

"Do you think this is a good idea?" is the worst question you can ask. Your mom will say yes. Your friends will say yes. Strangers will say yes to be polite. None of that tells you anything useful.

Real Interview Examples: Bad vs. Good

Theory is great, but you need to see what this looks like in practice. Here are two conversations about the same topic—one that fails The Mom Test and one that passes.

Bad Interview: Pitching, Not Learning

Context: Founder building a project management tool for freelancers

Founder: "So I'm building an app that helps freelancers manage their projects. It'll have time tracking, invoicing, and client communication all in one place. Do you think that's something you'd use?"

Freelancer: "Yeah, that sounds really useful actually."

Founder: "Great! Would you pay $29/month for it?"

Freelancer: "Um, maybe? I'd have to see it first."

Founder: "What features would be most important to you?"

Freelancer: "Probably the invoicing. And maybe the time tracking."

What went wrong: Pitched first, asked hypotheticals ("would you"), asked about features instead of problems. Learned nothing real.

Good Interview: Learning, Not Pitching

Context: Same founder, same topic—different approach

Founder: "Tell me about the last project you worked on. How did you keep track of everything?"

Freelancer: "I used a spreadsheet mostly. And Slack for client messages."

Founder: "What was the hardest part about managing that project?"

Freelancer: "Honestly? Chasing payments. I finished the work in March but didn't get paid until June."

Founder: "That sounds frustrating. What did you try to fix that?"

Freelancer: "I started requiring 50% upfront. Lost a couple clients but the ones who stayed actually paid on time."

What went right: Asked about real past behavior, discovered the actual pain (late payments, not "project management"), learned what they've already tried.

More Examples: Leading vs. Open-Ended Questions

Leading questions contaminate your data. Here's how to reframe them:

Leading (Bad) Open-Ended (Good) Why
"Don't you find it frustrating when..." "Tell me about the last time you dealt with..." Let them define frustration
"Would you use an app that does X?" "How do you currently handle X?" Focus on current behavior
"Is price a major concern for you?" "Walk me through how you decided on your current solution." Let price come up naturally
"Would this feature be valuable?" "What would have to change for you to switch from your current approach?" Discover their switching triggers
"Do you think other people have this problem?" "Who else do you know that's dealt with this?" Get referrals, not opinions
"How much would you pay for this?" "How much does this problem cost you today? In time? In money?" Anchor to real costs, not guesses

The "Compliment Trap" Dialogue

Watch for compliments—they're warning signs, not validation.

Compliments That Mean Nothing

"That's a really cool idea!"

"I could definitely see myself using that."

"You should totally build this."

"Let me know when it's ready!"

Translation: "I want to be supportive but I'm not going to do anything."

Commitments That Mean Something

"Can I pay you now for early access?"

"I'll introduce you to our head of ops—she needs this."

"When can we schedule a pilot?"

"Here's my calendar link—let's talk again next week."

Translation: "I'm willing to invest time, money, or reputation."

The Fitzpatrick Test for Compliments

When you hear a compliment, mentally translate it: "That's nice, but you've just learned nothing." Then redirect: "Thanks! But help me understand—when's the last time you actually dealt with this problem, and what did you do?"

Jobs to Be Done: What Are They Really Hiring?

Customers don't buy products. They hire products to do a job. Understanding the job—not the product category—is the key to real insights.

The Famous Milkshake Example

McDonald's wanted to sell more milkshakes. Traditional research asked "How can we improve our milkshakes?" Better flavor? Bigger size? More toppings?

JTBD research asked: "What job are customers hiring milkshakes to do?"

Answer: Morning commuters were "hiring" milkshakes to make a boring drive more interesting and keep them full until lunch. The competitor wasn't Burger King's milkshake—it was a banana, a bagel, or a podcast.

The Job Story Format

Use this template to capture the job your customers are trying to do:

When [situation/context], I want to [motivation/goal], so I can [expected outcome].

Example: "When I'm preparing for my quarterly board meeting [situation], I want to quickly show which experiments worked [motivation], so I can justify our pivot decision with data [outcome]."

The Discovery Interview Script

Don't wing it. Go in with a script—but be ready to follow interesting threads.

Phase Question Purpose
Warm-up "Tell me about your role and what a typical day looks like." Build rapport, understand context
Problem "Tell me about the last time you encountered [problem area]." Get a specific story
Dig deeper "What was the hardest part about that?" Find the real pain point
5 Whys "Why was that hard?" (repeat) Get to root cause
Current solution "How do you currently handle this?" Discover competitors/workarounds
Dissatisfaction "What don't you love about that approach?" Find opportunity
Consequences "What happens if you don't solve this?" Measure urgency
Commitment "Would you be open to trying a solution if I built one?" Gauge real interest

Synthesizing What You Learn

After 5-10 interviews, patterns should emerge. If they don't, your segment might be too broad.

Signs of a Real Problem

  • Multiple people describe the same pain
  • They're already hacking together solutions
  • They can quantify the cost (time/money)
  • They get emotional when discussing it
  • They ask when your solution will be ready

Signs of a Fake Problem

  • Everyone's problem sounds different
  • Nobody's tried to solve it
  • They can't quantify the impact
  • They seem politely interested, not excited
  • They never follow up with you
Look for the "Hair on Fire" Problem

The best problems to solve are ones where customers are in so much pain they're already hacking together solutions—cobbling together spreadsheets, manual processes, or multiple tools to do what your product could do in one click. That's the "hair on fire" signal.

What You Walk Away With

  • Mom Test Mastery: Questions that reveal truth, not politeness.
  • Job Stories: Understanding of what job customers are really hiring for.
  • Interview Notes: Documented conversations you can analyze for patterns.
  • Problem Validation: Evidence that the problem is real (or not).
Generate Your Interview Script

Create Mom Test-compliant interview scripts tailored to your customer segment and problem hypothesis.

Lean Interview Guide
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Works Cited & Recommended Reading
Lean Startup & Innovation Accounting
Assumption Mapping & Testing
  • 7. Invest in Winning Ideas with Assumption Mapping. Miro
  • 10. Testing Business Ideas: Book Summary. Strategyzer
  • 11. Innovation Tools – The Assumption Mapper. Nico Eggert
  • 14. Business Testing: Is your Hypothesis Really Validated? Strategyzer
  • 16. An Introduction to Assumptions Mapping. Mural
  • 17. Assumption Mapping Techniques. Medium
Customer Interviews & The Mom Test
  • 8. Book Summary: The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick. Medium
  • 22. The Mom Test for Better Customer Interviews. Looppanel
  • 23. The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick [Actionable Summary]. Durmonski.com
  • 9. How to Evaluate Customer Validation in Early Stages. Golden Egg Check
Jobs-to-Be-Done Framework
  • 24. Jobs to be Done 101: Your Interviewing Style Primer. Dscout
  • 25. How To Get Results From Jobs-to-be-Done Interviews. Jobs-to-be-Done
  • 26. A Script to Kickstart JTBD Interviews. JTBD.info
Product-Market Fit & Surveys
  • 33. Sean Ellis Product Market Fit Survey Template. Zonka Feedback
  • 34. How to Use the Product/Market Fit Survey. Lean B2B
  • 35. Product Market-Fit Questions: Tips and Examples. Qualaroo
  • 36. Product/Market Fit Survey by Sean Ellis. PMF Survey
Pricing Validation Methods
Smoke Tests & Fake Door Testing
  • 43. Smoke Tests in Market Research - Complete Guide. Horizon
  • 45. Fake Door Testing - How it Works, Benefits & Risks. Chameleon.io
  • 52. High Hurdle Product Experiment. Learning Loop
  • 53. Fake Door Testing: Measuring User Interest. UXtweak
Conversion Benchmarks & Metrics
  • 46. Landing Page Statistics 2025: 97+ Stats. Marketing LTB
  • 47. Understanding Landing Page Conversion Rates 2025. Nudge
  • 49. What Is A Good Waitlist Conversion Rate? ScaleMath
  • 54. Average Ad Click Through Rates (CTRs). Smart Insights
Decision Making & Kill Criteria
  • 57. From Test Results to Business Decisions. M Accelerator
  • 58. Kill Criteria for Product Managers. Medium
  • 59. When to Kill Your Venture - Session Recap. Bundl

This playbook synthesizes research from Lean Startup methodology, Jobs-to-Be-Done theory, behavioral economics, and validation frameworks. Some book links may be affiliate links.